Celebrate Our First Birthday With Us 🥳

Dauntless PR Unfiltered is now 1 years old! Catherine and I have had so much fun over the past year creating these episodes and we hope you’ve had just as much fun, as well as gaining massive value from them. We also want to thank you for listening and for all the feedback we get… it really means the world. 

This week’s episode is a selection of our fave bits from over the past year. 

Enjoy!

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Transcript

One-Year Anniversary Best Bits

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Dauntless PR Unfiltered is officially one year old and to celebrate this week's episode is a recap of our best bits over the past year.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Enjoy.

Bad Day Opinions And Restraint

SPEAKER_00 0:13

I often think you've got the different types of opinions. So you've got your core value opinions, but then you've also got like your bad day opinions. So we've all had a bad day, haven't we? And at the end of it, we just think, oh, and we're annoyed by everyone and everything. Even people that sometimes we actually really like, they're just annoying us because we're having a bad day, we're tired. That is not the time to share your opinion with the world. Because you and you know, we've we've all been there, haven't we? All of us have been there where we've we've wanted to get onto a soapbox and rant and rave about something. And actually, in the times when people have done that, often they find if they have a sleep and they have something to eat and then they come back to it and they go, Oh, I probably went a bit strong on that. So that's probably a sign that maybe if you're having a day where you suddenly feel really driven to post something, but you weren't really driven to post something the day before, or and it's not something that is completely core message, sleep on it. I think that would be my thing, sleep on it and see how you feel in the morning. Because if it was that you just felt really frustrated with the world and people, then if it's a temporary thing the next day, you won't be bothered about sharing that opinion. If the next day you wake up and you still feel as strongly, then maybe dig a bit deeper. Okay, so is this something that does need to be said? Am I the right person to say it on my social media? Um am I the right person to say it wider than that, to actually pitch myself to talk about it in the media and actually look into it. But I think it's that thing of asking yourself the questions before you just jump in and share all your thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

I think that's so important, so, so, so important because what I see a lot, and this is something that makes leaders look weak, is when um they're sharing an opinion, but they didn't really think it through. So they shared their opinion and then other people disagree with them, which is fine, that's always going to happen when you share an opinion, but then that person goes back on that what they originally said. It doesn't show them, it doesn't position them then as being the strong, powerful leader. It shows them as being unsure, not confident, not really sure of themselves and what they're saying. So, you know, before you share an opinion, just make sure that you it is actually your opinion and that you can back it up. That isn't something that you've seen somebody else post or whatever, and just go, oh, that seems cool. Lots of people seem to be agreeing with that. So that must be my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Make sure that it is actually your opinion, and that there's some sort of value to it. I think this is so I'm gonna say something now that some people might think on the surface sounds really harsh, and they might they might think, oh, I don't like that thing, but not all opinions are worth the same. We've been kind of taught and built up to be like, oh, my opinion is as valid as anybody else's. I don't believe that is always the case, and when I say that, I'm not saying oh, there's some people are more important than others, that's not what I know at all. No, no, but for some things, you are not gonna know the topic as well as somebody else. So, for example, I often will listen to some debate programmes, some on on the radio or on the TV, and they'll try on both sides an argument and you'll get a ridiculous situation. And I bet if I say this, we'll all have seen something similar where we'll have gone, oh, that's a bit crazy, and they'll have something like a climate change scientist who's studied it for 30 years, and then they'll have like a bloke who just thinks it's nonsense, and it will be like it won't if they don't also have something to back it up, some actual knowledge and expertise and credentials, their opinion on that topic, not their opinion on everything, but their opinion on that topic is not as valuable and shouldn't be given the same way. For example, you know, I Luana has an acting background, I don't. If I suddenly wade in with my opinion on how people should act based on nothing more than just my opinion seeing it and what I might think, doesn't mean my opinion is worthless, but it wouldn't be as valuable as someone who actually has experience and could say, Well, I know from my own experience and from working with other people that this is why this happens and this is what we do, and that kind of thing. So there is often in arguments a real tendency for people to say, Well, it's just my opinion, and like for that to be the end of the matter, and it's kind of like, Well, you can have an opinion, but it doesn't necessarily mean everyone has to value your opinion, your opinion might be trash. If I was to come on here and rant and rave about not liking my next door neighbour because he wore a particular type of hat or something, I'm just making something up, it wouldn't be a valuable opinion, it might be my opinion, but it wouldn't be a valuable one that matters and that should be like tolerated and shared and spread. It might be the kind of thing that you tell your long-suffering friend who just kind of goes, Oh, okay, great. Um, or like you close circle, but I think we all kind of have a bit of a responsibility. Social media has kind of made us all into publishers, so we all have an audience and we all put things out into the world that can be seen by other people. So when you're sharing opinions, sometimes people will go, Well, I'm not going in the media, I'm just going in front of my own audience. If it's something that you might have to apologize for later that you wouldn't want everyone to see, that actually you haven't really thought through, then just don't post it. Just think about it. Like I say, have a nap, have something to eat, just have a think about it. Because we can all think of people who have come into the public eye, they've become a lot more famous, a lot more visible, and suddenly they're being called up for tweets from years ago that were maybe racist or sexist or bigoted in some way, or maybe just really ill-informed opinions that make them look silly. And what I would say is you know, and we all deep down know if we've shared some absolutely trashy opinions in the past, if you're about to start trying to make yourself visible, or you're already in the process of doing PR and making yourself more visible, and you want to become a really respected figure in your niche, you want to be someone that people look at and you know that your social media accounts from a few years ago are a bit shady. There's some things there that you wouldn't do now that you did. Go and delete it. Go and delete those things. Do it not because you're not being authentic and you're not being honest, and you're not just because if you no longer stand by those things, if you no longer stand by it, just take it off. It's not worth it because it can really damage your brand. There have been some really famous PR examples of people doing and saying things without thinking. I'm gonna show my age here because anyone under the age of about 40 probably won't remember this. But in the UK there was a jewelry firm called Ratners, and the owner of the jewelry firm, Gerald Ratner, said in an interview that his jewellery was crap, and it was just I remember and it became a sensation of people going and it completely killed the business. And it was something that he may have thought, he may have genuinely thought that that was a load of rubbish, but it wasn't something he should ever have said because he was actually damaging his own brand. So if there's anything that you do as a brand that you think, oh well, I think it's a load of rubbish, really, but I just do it because people like to pay for it. Don't share that out loud. Or if you have don't sell what you don't believe in, even yeah, and if you have certain clients that maybe inside you are judging them a little bit or thinking they're a bit daft or a bit silly. Again, we can't police what you actually think, but don't share it if it's about people that you want to work with.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

I see people posting about their clients shaming them. Like, I I can't even fathom. Anybody who does that, they're just instantly breaking the trust of their whole audience immediately. And I see it a lot. But you you said one word then that made me think like this is what I think a lot of this comes down to people trying to be authentic because there's so many messages out there. Oh, you've got to be authentic, share your thoughts, share your opinions, and all of this. And what that leads to is people doing that in a way that's completely unfiltered, and that's positioned in a way that, oh, you should share your unfiltered thoughts, that's the right way of doing it, but being truly unfiltered isn't or is unlikely to do your brand good when you're just saying stuff without thinking it through and without thinking about the impact that that can have on the people that you want to reach.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Absolutely, and you know, there's opinions that just don't serve you. I think this is the thing that it's like, what is it going to serve you in your business? So if it's that someone's really annoyed you, and I have seen this, these are all things I've seen people doing, people that are trying to be more visible as well, not just people who are happily on the social media just doing their own private lives, but people who maybe they had a bad sales call, or maybe they were annoyed by something a client did, and in sort of processing that privately and thinking, are there any lessons that I need to learn? Maybe there are some important messages that you could say as a result of it and that need to be said, but instead of sort of allowing that to settle and to think what are the messages that I need to tell people that might avoid these situations in the future, maybe are some things that people had misunderstood before they got on a sales call, and actually, if you make it more clear, that would be a good thing. What they do is they do, like I say, the bad day opinion, where they come on and they just rant and rave about a particular person, and occasionally that might be worth it, you know. If someone had done something absolutely terrible and they needed to be called out, and it was a situation that you think this I need to talk about this because this is not okay, this is something that, but you just need to give yourself pause. If it's a story that you are not comfortable with everybody you know knowing about, then don't share it in the media because you cannot control who will hear, see, read. You can't stop your mum reading a newspaper article about you, you can't stop your next door neighbour who always gossips about you anyway from reading about your things. So if it's not something that you can stand proudly behind, then think very carefully, because you can't just put something out and rely on people forgetting about it. People do forget, but in this online world, if people are Googling your name, these things are gonna keep coming up. So don't think about it.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

But remember as well. I'm sorry, on that note, just remember as well that the opinions that matter are yours and your ideal client. So that doesn't mean that you're then gonna go against everybody else or anything like that, but it does mean that you need to have enough self-assurance to be able to back it up no matter who questions you. You cannot backtrack. Like if you're showing up and you say something in the press and then you retract that and say something completely different down the line, well, then everybody's going to lose confidence in you.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Absolutely. And it's about you want to control your image, but not so tightly that you never do anything. I think that's the danger of yeah, you don't want to panic about every little thing, but you do want to make sure that you're not just throwing shit at the wall. So, like if you are um talking about everything and you end up contradicting yourself. So, this is another thing. There's not just the the sort of dicey personal stories, but sometimes people will almost put their hand up to every opportunity, even when it kind of goes against their business's message. So think about you know, you might say, for example, I don't know, maybe you um do a piece saying that you are a passionate homeschooler, you home educate your kids, you'll really believe in that, and you've done some press about that. Brilliant, amazing. But then you see that a journalist is wanting to talk about people who think homeschooling is a load of rubbish, and you're so desperate to get more press that you contradict everything that you've said, and you just say yes. So, you know, journalists will, and producers, if we're talking about TV and radio, will often kind of cast um a two-sides argument. And I have known this, not with any of our clients, but I've known it in real life. People who argue the opposite to what they really believe because the perspective they wanted to argue was taken, someone's already doing that. People will want that publicity, they want to appear. Say, for example, in the UK, we have this morning, very big morning TV show that lots of people want to be on. And they often have these debates where they have somebody on both sides. If you were being offered the opportunity by a producer, oh, would you like to come and talk about this topic on this morning? And you might be like, Yes, I absolutely do. And then they say to you, Well, we've got somebody arguing, and whatever the perspective is, is what you would argue, we want someone to say the opposite. That's your moment then to think, okay, am I gonna go on this just so I can say I've been on TV, or am I gonna stand by? And you know, there will be people who, particularly if they've been approached, see if they would say the other thing, that will be tempted to go on and say the opposite. But the problem is that's what people are gonna know you for. And if it's something that you passionately don't believe in, you're gonna come across as fake, you're gonna come across as inauthentic, it's gonna switch off the people that you want to switch on. So the value of being on a TV show isn't gonna outweigh the negative of being on for the wrong reasons. 100%. So, in that case, what I would advise people to do is say, I absolutely would have loved to come on to argue the side that you've already cast. So if that person pulls out, I'm absolutely up for it. Please bear me in mind for anything that you're casting in the future on these topics. So you're making it clear, it's not a no, and you're not burning the bridge. You are saying um you're standing true for your values, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Not just arguing the other side of the fence just to get that publicity, that seat on the couch, that kind of we had a client this week actually who was called up by GB News because she's been on several times, and she was asked to talk about something that wasn't particularly like in her line, it wasn't particularly in alignment for her, it wasn't something that she was particularly knowledgeable about, and a lot of people in that situation would have just said yes and then would have gone on, not really backing themselves, not really knowing. But she was very clear when she she explained and she was saying that's not my exact area, however, I'm still very keen, you know, to come on if you have anything talking about, and she reminds them exactly what her area was, and then guess what? The next day they called her up again, and she was on that very same day. So it's always fine if you're not if something isn't your topic. For example, if I was to be called up to talk about product PR, well, that's not me. You know, I wouldn't go on and talk about that. If somebody wants to talk about personal branding PR, I am all over it. So it's really knowing who you are and knowing that what you've got to say is actually something valuable. Not to the point where you feel like you have to know everything about it. You don't, nobody's expecting you to be superhuman and to have all of the answers, but you absolutely do need to be an expert in whatever it is that you're gonna talk about and you absolutely need to back yourself, no matter how many people are against you. If you're sharing something, think, am I willing to speak this out loud? And imagine if everybody, imagine if I had hundreds of comments against me, would I still back myself? If the answer is yes, then go for it, you know, and if you're happy as well for people to be repelled who don't agree with you, you know, because people do want to work with people with similar values.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

And people can always tell, particularly on a TV, radio, podcast where they can hear you and they can know if you don't know what you're talking about. If you're on and you're saying stuff you don't believe in or you don't know about, and you're just there because you want to be on this you can tell, it's so glaringly obvious, and it makes people not trust you, so it does the opposite. So one of the things we always talk a lot about is how PR helps build your trust and your credibility. This does the exact opposite people they don't realise that actually had you been talking about something else, you're shit, you're really knowledgeable because all they heard is you're talking about something where you didn't really say. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

It's the halo, it's the halo effect in psychology. If you speak about any topic with excellence, then other things that you speak about, people just assume that you're also gonna be knowledgeable on that. But the opposite is also true. If the first time they see you is you talking about something looking insecure, you're not sure, well, guess what? They're also going to think, or they're gonna assume, and it's not a logical thing, but it is true, they are going to assume that you also may not be knowledgeable about your topic.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah.

Credibility, Consistency, And Media Choices

SPEAKER_00 19:59

So I really want to talk now about what do you do if you've had a bit of negative press in the past? Because you know, we're not perfect. Maybe something's happened in the past, or maybe something will happen, and it's not ideal. And maybe there might be all sorts of reasons for it. Maybe you made a bad decision, maybe you feel like somebody else did something that wasn't great. But the point is, you've got something and you're like, oh, how do I deal with it? And I think it's really important to not run from it, would be my first thing. Is or if it's something where you have done something that was a mistake, was a negative, and really hold yourself accountable because I think people are going to respect that. You can't always sweep everything under the carpet. Usually, people's gut instinct, and it's incredibly understandable, is they'll get a bit of negativity and they will just hide, they'll shut their social medias that they might even delete the social medias. Um they will go underground, they will hide. But the thing is, it doesn't go away, it will still be there waiting for you when you come back. And if you want to continue running a business and being visible, you can't stay underground forever. For some people, that might work if it's a negative thing and they've got no interest in being known by the world, then they don't have to address it. But actually, think about okay, telling your side of the story, making it clear what happened, apologizing if that's appropriate. Obviously, it will depend on what you're doing. Hold your hands up. Sometimes just holding your hands up, apologizing and talking about what you're gonna do to put whatever it was right.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

A lot of the time it's not about the mistake, but it's about how it's handled afterwards. Pushed me out of my comfort zone because I had no pressure. Preparation time. And so I asked myself, what's the worst that could happen? So I really go there. I'm not a fan of avoiding these things. I'm not a fan of just pretending everything's fine and just pushing it away. I'm a fan of really, really going there, okay? So I asked myself, what's the worst that can happen? And then I really delve into them. I let my imagination go absolutely wild. Then, second question: what's my game plan? If the worst was to happen, what am I gonna do next? And so I plan my way out of that. I pretend that that thing's happened and I go, okay, well, if that happens, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this. And then I flip it on its head and I ask myself, what's the best that could happen? Again, my imagination goes wild with what the best is that can happen. And then the fourth question is, is it worth it? If that's a yes, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna run towards it as fast as I can before Fear has a chance to catch up, before my brain starts giving me reasons why I can't and all of this. No, I'm just gonna run towards it as fast as I can and say yes to the thing. On the other hand, though, if there's a situation where I think, is it worth it? And I think, no, then I'm not gonna do it. So it's not about being reckless, it's about being very intentional, and then there's other things as well that don't need as much deliberation.

Handling Negative Press Without Hiding

SPEAKER_01 23:28

It can be something okay. So I'm just thinking about the other day, right? I was walking out by my lake, and it was it was raining, so I hadn't thought I'm gonna go for a swim in the lake or anything. But when once I was out, the water looked so inviting as the rain was coming down and there was nobody around. And I thought, do you know what? I'm just gonna whip my clothes off and get in the lake. So for that, I still went through the entire process, but on a much quicker, but you know, in a much quicker way. It was like, yeah, let's go. So, you know, it's not always for the huge, huge decisions. Sometimes it's just for the lit the little ones. Just should I do this fun thing?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

I think almost everything that you can think about in your life that was really amazing probably stems from a moment where you went, fuck it, and you just did something. There's most things, there's like a turning point, isn't there, where you could have gone one way or the other, and you had to step into that kind of right. I'm gonna go out of my comfort zone, I'm gonna be brave, I'm gonna do the thing. And the people that start their own businesses and work for themselves are already a huge way there because it will be so easy to not do that because that's already kind of like a fuck it moment in itself, isn't it? Do I carry on working in a job where I'm just sort of doing what somebody else tells me to do and it's all very structured, or do I start doing something where I'm my own boss when I do my own thing? So anybody listening to this who is thinking about PR, has their own business, maybe you've already done some PR, you've already got to this point multiple times, and I guess it's just about inhabiting that space more and more. So like looking for the yeses rather than the no's. There will sometimes be no's, as Loana says, it's not about just doing anything without thinking it through and stuff, but not letting the not letting things like the judgment of other people. It's about making sure it's you that wants to do this. What do you want to do? How is it going to impact you? Not about things like, oh, well, what will the mums at school think if I do this? I remember writing some articles in the past where I was sharing stuff about my own life and I was sort of doing some sort of first-person journalism and having to have those kind of fucking moments of like some people that I know will read this and be like, oh, and just being like, Well, does that matter? No, and and just doing it anyway. And I think this is the thing, it's about owning your own sense of self and making that the important thing. If you can be happy with your decisions yourself, you know that that's gonna work for you, that's the main thing, not all the other noise, because there's so much other background noise that can get in the way sometimes of doing the things we really want to, the things that we know we should do, that we need to do, that are gonna elevate um businesses and movements and whatever things you've got going on. And I think PR forces that issue more than lots of other things because you have to decide what am I gonna put my head above the power, what am I gonna say, what are my messages, what am I it gives you that clarity where you're not just somebody who is invisibly moving through the world, you are actually making a name for yourself and you are having to make decisions about what that actually means for you. PR is the biggest personal development journey.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

The absolute biggest. Every time we go out there and we're getting in front of people, or we're stating an opinion, or we're putting ourselves out for judgment and criticism, or showing up even when we don't feel like it, when our brains telling us to just go have a nap or whatever, every time, or when we're pushing ourselves out of our comfort zone, like I was saying with that particular TV interview, it rewires us and it rewires us to be stronger and to be able to tolerate more and just to be more badass. And that doesn't just affect us with PR, that affects our business, it affects our life, our relationships, like everything. It all seeps through because I don't know how to say it in a less wanky way, so I apologize, but it's like it forces you to be that like next level version of yourself, the one that can handle so much more, even on a bigger level.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Even just down to um, I'll often have conversations with our clients, and they'll get all these great new ideas, and it's all stuff that was in there, but just talking it through with uh in relation to PR really can help them know what to do. So even things like working out what your story is, because most people until they start doing something like PR, or maybe they might be doing um public speaking or something where they need to stand up and share their story. Most people have just lived their life, they're not thinking of it in terms of what's my story. Even just that, it can be so um powerful to actually have a little bit of perspective and look back and think what are those things that made me who I am? What are the things that have guided me, inspired me? What are the things I want people to know about me? And it's actually a clarifying, quite a healing experience, and really I think great for just getting to know yourself almost PR kind of forces you to really think about who you are. What do you think? What do you want to do? Because you're not just um one of many people, you're actually setting yourself up as somebody who is gonna stand out from the crowd and have things to say and share things, and working out what those things are is so powerful, and sometimes that will also there will be many fucking moments when it comes to sharing your own story. Most of us have things that we'll think, oh, do I want to share that? Is that the right thing? And you know, I definitely recommend going through those questions that Loana mentioned and having a think. There might be bits that maybe it's worth leaving out, but actually, would these things really culture people and really thinking about that and not worrying about say the background noise around it? Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Do you know? I had something in my mind that I was gonna reply then, and it's completely escaped me. It might come back in a minute. But I want to ask you though, Catherine, what was your biggest fuck it moment?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

I don't think I can't think of any one single moment, but actually, almost every work-related thing when I've moved to a new thing has had a bit of a fuck it moment behind it. So um, when I first went to being self-employed, I suppose for years and years I worked for newspapers, I showed up, I worked certain shifts, I did what they asked me to do. Yes, I had my own ideas within that, but it was very much, oh, we need you to do this and this. When I actually decided I won't go back to the newsroom, I'll write my own things and I'll I'll design my own life and work my own hours, and that was a big fucking moment. I think even just joining Dauntless when we first, I mean it was 2020, it was literally right. So when Luana and I first ever spoke, the world was just about to go wild with COVID. I think we got on the phone and just had like a chat because we were in the same Facebook group, and it was just one of those really weird things where we just came into each other's, and that was very much a yeah, this sounds fun, let's do it, let's just go for it. And it's kind of been that ever since that every like level up, every new thing we've done, there's been that kind of thing of well, what's the worst that can happen? Let's weigh this up, yeah, fuck it, let's do it. And it's always been a good thing, even having a fourth child. So, for those of you who don't know, I've got four children, which most people think is insane, and it is a little bit insane, it is a bit insane, and they were all intentional. Um, so there was no, oh, I've ended up with four, and I remember so with my first and second children, I had so much congratulations when I first said that I was pregnant. Oh, congratulations. By number four, I just got oh, I wasn't expecting this, and the congratulations, though, there were still some congratulations, but they were much more muted, they were much more puzzled, they were much more because it was that kind of oh, that's not what I would choose, and that's often I think where we get that it's okay to not choose that for yourself, and you know, that we don't have to to do what everybody else is doing. So I definitely felt once I'd like moved into that, what people would see as a big family, that people were like, Well, what are you even doing? And I was like, No, this is what I want to do. But the way I sort of saw it is for me I embraced the chaos, I loved having the kids and the chaos that that comes with. And yes, four was gonna be chaos, but I was gonna embrace it and and go for it, so that was probably a big where I was like, come on, let's do it. Like, yeah, it's you know, can we probably afford four? You know, maybe not, let's just do it anyway and and see what happens. And I've never looked back, a definite fucking moment.

Big Leaps And Saying Yes

SPEAKER_00 34:09

I think the thing now is because AI generated images are so good that if somebody is, like we say, only on an online space, there is the potential that somebody, the images they put up might not be there. Yeah, um, might not be there. Um, so we are in this kind of very strange space where it used to be that people kind of only imagine these kind of scenarios, um, like in a dating thing like catfishing, putting up a fake profile picture, trying to convince people that you were some supermodel when maybe you weren't. But now we're in this space where people can be faking it in all sorts of

AI Proof And Human Expertise

SPEAKER_00 34:49

areas of their life. But what PR, as well as being a kind of a really great sort of social proof that you've got you're showing up in different places, journalists are quite on the whole, I would say, AI skeptical. So they are not wanting um AI-generated comments to feature in their article, partly because they could get them themselves. So there is plenty of outlets that are using AI um to help them produce their own content. So I'm not saying that AI doesn't have a place in the media, it absolutely does. But if they are looking for experts, they're not looking for somebody who has the same software as them to send them some stuff they found in the same way as if we sort of dial back to before AI and think about search engines, you wouldn't be like, oh, could you just quickly Google something? I could have Googled myself and tell me what you find. They're wanting people who can offer something a bit more than they can find on us. So that could be maybe it's a different perspective. Maybe it's talking about stuff that isn't widely online because what AI will do is it will look at what is the information that's out there, and it will give you summaries of what most people are saying, what's the widely accepted view of this? Yeah, that's not how to stand out, is it, Catherine? Yeah, and maybe you say something that most people aren't saying, so it's gonna be different to what AI is saying. Maybe you go deeper with your knowledge than what you would find on the internet, and that's a really crucial thing that's gonna make you more appealing to journalists. So it isn't even just um that it will make you more appealing to your ideal clients, which it absolutely will, but it will make you somebody that journalists want to feature if you aren't someone who just relies completely on AI, because you'll be giving them something that stands out from what other people are offering them. You're not just going for the quick shortcut to, oh, here's 500 words, but they're just 500 words that have been created by a bot. Here's actually something I have thought about, something that I know from my professional experience. Maybe you throw in a couple of personal anecdotes or some examples of people that you've helped with this issue. So you're actually giving them something that isn't already available, and that's gonna make you somebody that is likely to be featured again and again because they're gonna know, okay, this isn't from Chat GPT, and a lot of journalists will actually use software to spot whether something's AI generated because they don't want to create an article that's just um things that are widely available, and you know, it isn't always, it will get better and better, but the stuff that AI comes up with isn't often the best thing that you could find on that.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Well, it's like you say, it's what's already out there, isn't it? It's it's not going to be unique, it's not gonna be based on their lived experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

You know, if you think of a question that you might have, if you type that question into Google, you will get an answer. But usually that answer will be relatively shallow and it will it won't give you everything you need to know on a topic. If you went to somebody that was the actual expert in that and you asked them that same question, they'd be able to go a lot deeper. They might be able to offer you some, you know, kind of customized advice. They could ask you some questions, they could really help guide you. So it's never gonna substitute a real human expert. And I think what you need to do is lean into that and think it's not gonna replace me. So, how can I be making sure that I am getting across my advice that isn't gonna be the same as what everybody else is saying, and really showcase your human side, and this is a great example of why I'm a big fan of people telling their personal stories or putting a bit of themselves and their own experiences in the stuff that they say, um, it helps people relate to it, but also it does show that authenticity. Anybody could um bluff it if they're just using some stuff they found online. But if someone actually says, Do you know what? I helped a client with this two years ago and I did this, and they can actually talk through the process. That's the stuff that's harder to fake and that will actually get people realizing that you are the real deal and you're the person that they should be working with, or you're the person that they should be getting onto their show or featuring in their magazine. So it works both sides, both from a kind of a reaching your people and also becoming the kind of person that the media wants to feature and wants to push out to their audience because believe it or not, they can do. I always used to think it was it's something that's been happening for a long time that people would not use AI for years, because obviously that's a relatively at its infancy, but people would just regurgitate stuff that they'd found on Google and think that that would work, and you think, well, I can do that myself. So it's it's giving people stuff that they can't just do themselves. Your client base could use Chat GPT to get those answers. They don't want the answers that they can get themselves, they don't want the stuff that they can find on Google. Journalists don't want the stuff that they can find themselves, they want the stuff that only you can tell them, the stuff that you you specialise in, that you can go deeper on, that you can offer a perspective on, and that you can put into context and explain. Maybe there's some things that are really widely considered as what you should do, but you can actually explain well why. Why, why should we do this? Or what else could we do that people aren't thinking of? So, really, um, I think AI is a brilliant tool, but it is gonna make it that bit more crucial for you to make sure that people know that you are not just someone who is sticking up some chat GPT content and hoping for the best.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Yeah, yeah, or even creating full courses out of it and just sticking them on something to sell or whatever. Yeah, you've got to show that you're real. And I think a lot of this comes down to incredible people being insecure. I think it comes down to insecurity a lot because um it's like people have this idea that they have to come across as perfect, that they have to have all the answers, but that's just not true. People want to see a human side, people want to see the real, raw, messy version of you. And I don't mean don't deliver as promise and all of that stuff, just show the real human side of you that people can resonate with and that people can connect to, because that's what's gonna draw the real people in, not this perfectly polished version of yourself, because that doesn't exist, that is completely fake.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

And you know, speaking from a journalist perspective, when I was interviewing people, so um, when I would, you know, I'd be making my shorthand notes and talking to people, and when they used to say something really interesting, I would always do a little asterisk next to it because I'd be like, that's gold, I'm gonna come back to that. The stuff that I would do that to would never be the bland factual stuff, the stuff that you and something like that. You know, I'm never gonna do it from I might love the fact that they brought some statistics in because that helps back up what they're saying. So I'm not saying that that's not valuable, but they wouldn't be the things that would stop me in my tracks and be like brilliant. Yeah, it would be the turn of phrase. Maybe they had like a really unique way of describing something, or like a little nickname that they give us something, or they would just come out with like a really great sound bite, a great phrasing to really nail what something was, or what people should be doing, and a unique way of talking about a topic that maybe have been talked about a lot, and you're never gonna find those unique things through AI. So that's the thing of the stuff that makes people go, oh wow, maybe you describe something if you think about your niche, maybe you have a different way of talking about something than other people in your space. Maybe you look at things in a different way, or you you Some advice that's different, it's it's your differences that make you the person that people should come to.

Visibility Goblins And Self-Sabotage

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Welcome to Dauntless PR and Filtered. We have a juicy one coming up today. We're going to be talking about what's really going on when you feel the urge to shrink. Because what happens is normal, it's predictable, and it happens to everybody at every level, doesn't it, Catherine?

SPEAKER_00 44:35

I think this is this is a really crucial thing. This is we're not just talking about the kind of things that happen when you are starting to dip your toe into PR, into being visible. This happens to every person at every level, even people who have made a career being in the media, and they happen at different times and in different ways. Um do you want to introduce introduce what we're talking about and then we'll jump. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

So I've got I've got I've got a way of framing what actually happens. And the reason I do this, the reason I frame it this way is because if anybody knows about my visibility journey, they will know it hasn't been easy. They will know it's been very rocky, it hasn't been easy for me to be able to show up publicly, to be able to speak my truth and to go and do PR on all of that stuff. And what goes on and what has always gone on in my mind? I started framing as visibility goblins, and then as we started working with other people getting more visible, I found that everyone has the same patterns, and when they can spot them and when they can reframe them, it can really take away the heaviness of it all. So the way I like to frame them is by actually naming them as the visibility goblins. Now, each visibility goblin has got a different technique, a different way of trying to take that person off track. Now, most people uh listening to this will know that whenever they get negative voices or they feel the urge to shrink for some reason, or they feel themselves going into self-sabotaging patterns, that it's the brain trying to keep them safe. That's a well-known thing. What the visibility goblins are is a way of categorizing everything that can happen and reframing them in a way that takes away that heaviness and in a way that makes them really easy to deal with because every visibility goblin has got a different job and they all show up at different times and they can also work together. So I'll give you some examples of the most common ones that come up. Now, everybody and everybody listening to this will recognize Brenda the Bitch Goblin. This is usually the first one that shows up. So by the time somebody's done a lot of personal development, Brenda the Bitch Goblin tends to quieten down and be replaced by other goblins. And that's because as people become more self-aware and as people start recognizing what's happening and how to deal with it, the goblins then have to get more creative, they have to become more sneaky. So Brenda the Bitch Goblin is the one that shows up and places doubt. That's the negative voice. That's the one saying, Are you sure are you sure you want to talk about that? Oh, your hair's a mess. You can't go on TV, your hair's a mess. You're not good enough, you don't know what you're talking about. Everybody else is better than you. Yeah, no, no, again, that's it. No, no, but why should people care? All of that, and again, most people what uh listening to this will know that those are all bits of what we've been conditioned with from a very, very early age that have stuck with us. So they're all voices from our childhood, probably before we were seven years old. And so Brenda the Bitch Goblin is one that most regularly shows up very, very early in the journey. Whereas as people grow in visibility and as people get more self-aware, and as people learn how to handle themselves more and how to override those negative voices, then others tend to come in. So we've got, I'll give you some examples. So a really, really common one is Logan, the logical goblin. So Logan will tell people that it's this is a really, really hard one to spot. And it's because Logan is very plausible, Logan is very reasonable. Logan will tell you, well, yes, do the thing, but it's gonna be more effective if you do this, this, this, this, and this first, because then it's gonna be more powerful. It's gonna logic your way out of you getting visible. And we've got others like Danny, the I don't know goblin. What Danny's technique is is completely clearing your mind of anything useful whatsoever. Have you ever had that situation? Have you ever been in been asked a question and then all of a sudden something that you might have answered time and time again, and then all of a sudden you've gone blank.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Yeah, absolutely. I think the really interesting thing with particularly going back to Logan is I feel like most people who have dealt with a Logan, the logical goblin, will be completely unaware and still believe that that was probably the right decision.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

That they're gonna be. There will always be a perfectly logical and plausible reason not to do the thing if you're looking for it. And Logan's job, or that's what he thinks his job is, we're gonna go into the techniques to reframe that in a bit, but Logan's job is to actively look for perfectly logical reasons not to do the thing, to shrink.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Yeah, and the one thing I think is if you are um anxious and you have fear, because that's the driving thing of why these goblins show up, you will seek anything that will give you relief. So, like the avoiding the thing gives you relief, and you get a kind of a temporary, oh, that's better. So often when people listen to these little inner goblins, they will feel good about it initially, not necessarily Brenda, because she's not a very nice, she's not very nice sometimes. She's doesn't really watch her language very well. But people listening to what they think is like sound, regional, reasonable logic, or you might think, oh, you know, my intuition told me not to do that, when actually it's a self-sabotaging thing, and you are getting the immediate relief, but you're not getting nearer to your goal. I think this is the thing that you might think, oh well, if I feel relief and like my brain's telling me this, why don't I just listen to it? That sounds like I should. But if your goal is, I want to make an impact, I want to be visible, I want to take my business to the next level, I want to be an expert in the media, listening to all of these goblins isn't going to take you nearer to where you are. It will give you that temporary feeling of, oh phew, I don't have to do the scary interview. Oh it wouldn't be logical for me to go to London and be on that TV show. I could be doing XY and Z. And then they applaud.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

But yeah, eventually. But they applaud themselves for being sensible and for doing the right thing. But what so many people do is they mistake alignment with things feeling good.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

So they think if something's uncomfortable that it's out of alignment when they're completely different things.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

I would say my obviously, I have a slightly different thing because I'm not trying to build my personal brand in the same way, but my one would be Sammy the Scaredy Cat Goblin who throws up all sorts of worst-case scenarios. That would be the one I've wrestled with for all sorts of different situations because it doesn't have to be about being in the medium, it could be all sorts of things that you're doing in life that that you want to do. Lots of hypothetical situations that are completely imaginary, and what ifs, and what if I go on TV and I completely freeze and have nothing to say? What if there's a power cut and this doesn't happen? What if this happens? And obviously, that's anxiety, that's your brain just sending these things out again to keep you safe. But people will often end up listening to that rather than what we will be talking about in a little bit is like how do you actually deal with these things?

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Exactly. The one that I've struggled with the most, and it's been oh, you'll you'll know straight away when I say this, Catherine, because I used to struggle with it so much, even just like two, three years ago. Frankie the fuck you up goblin. Now, what Frankie the Fuck You Up Goblin does is it gives you physical symptoms. It's when everything else has failed, and Frankie is usually the last one to weigh in, and it will give you actual physical symptoms to stop prevent you from doing the thing. And I I always do remember, Catherine, before we'd have an event or things like that, I would lose my voice. Or I would get serious ill.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

And that's very physical thing of you're literally losing the thing you need. And it was like your body was like, Well, we haven't managed to stop you with these other goblins, you've got over them. So now we are gonna, we are at the last resort territory now. We're gonna take away your actual voice.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

Yeah, I'm so do you remember what I used to do to I I like I was so used to it happening that if I was delivering a training or something over live stream and I had one booked, I would always have a backup and I would uh record it on and on live reacting, which would because we used to do things on live stream, didn't we? And I'd have one backed up just in case I lost the ability to talk.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

I think I've noticed it less and less as you've you've dealt with it, but it was one of those things that at first I was like, oh, how unlucky. And that's the thing, isn't it? That usually your first thing isn't gonna be, oh well, this is my subconscious, this is my brain, this is a visibility gob. And you just kind of go, I have the worst luck because every time I try and do this, I get ill, or something comes up. Um, some and it feels like you know, the universe is out to get you, and really it is it's your own body sabotaging you for moving forward because it's trying everything it can to keep you in your comfort zone because that's where it wants to be. It wants to keep where it knows, okay, we've got to this level, everything's safe. Do we really need to put our head above the parapet? Do we really need to be in a newspaper or TV? Can't we just stay here? And it makes complete sense from an evolutionary point of view that people did need to keep safe in their caves, and they did need to like keep their world really close to them. But now we've got all these like dreams and visions and things that we're wanting to do, and those people that really want to get out there and make an impact are challenging their survival instinct of like let's just stay where we are.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Yeah, I mean the goblins are not there to help us to thrive, and by the goblins, of course, not actual goblins, the brain doing its work in trying to keep us safe, isn't it? So, but uh that's how I like to frame them, and it's like completely forgot what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Look, I've remembered my other one that I really struggle with in life, so as well as the Sammy the Scaredy Cat, ha haul a procrastination goblin. I am a terrible procrastinator. I will want to do a thing, and I'll really want to do a thing, I'll really care about it, and then I will think of all these other things that actually need to be done.

Wrap-Up And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Thank you for tuning in. We have had so much fun over the year delivering these episodes, and we really hope that you're having just as much fun listening to them and that you're finding them valuable. As always, email us with any comments or any suggestions for future episodes or questions you have to hello at dauntlesspr.com. Here's too many more years to come.