Busting through the BS about PR

Today, Catherine Ball and I share the truth about some misconceptions of PR based on actual recent conversations we’ve had. We’re not holding back 🔥

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Dauntless PR Unfiltered. I'm really looking forward to this one today because we're going to be busting through the bullshit of PR, aren't we, Catherine?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

We certainly are. And I think, you know, there's quite a lot of bullshit surrounding the world of PR, or certainly a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings about how the world of the media works, what's valued by journalists. There's just a lot of things that people perhaps believe that might be holding them back from really achieving what they can.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Completely. And just before we go into this, like a big reason why people believe in these things is because of bullshit that is being promoted out there that is designed purely to get people to buy, but it's not giving them the full and accurate truth of what PR actually is and how it works. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

So I would say a key thing that I would want to say straight away that people get wrong is this idea that one big media piece is kind of you get a big piece in a dream outlook, and then that piece then does all the work for you, and you can sit back and you no longer have to think about PR. That's it taken. And the one thing I would say is you have to look at your PR strategy as being a core part of your business operations. So, in the same way as you wouldn't post one social media post and then be like, well, that got a lot of likes, I can just give up on this now. You wouldn't do your accounts one tax year and then go, I mean, I've done, I've done, I'm done with this. I don't need to keep my accounts anymore. It should be something that you are doing week in, week out for the length of your business operating. It's just something that should be a core part of you. I mean, imagine if you were to Google somebody and they had an absolutely phenomenal piece all about them, what they do, and it was, you know, it might be in Forbes or in another really impressive outlet. But then you looked, and that piece was from 2018 or something, it wouldn't make you go, oh wow, like they're the person now.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

You'd be like, okay, so what have they been doing the last yeah, just oh they're not they're not relevant anymore.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah, yeah. And that's the way Google people often forget this this piece of it that Google will obviously prioritize new content. So if you only have media pieces from years and years ago, they're gonna fall down and down the results like a stone. They're still gonna be there and they they're still great to have, but you need to be keeping adding to it and not thinking, oh, I've I've done that, I've done that little experiment, that was fine for then, and and moving on. You know, keep consistently showing up and coming up with new things to say because the world is constantly changing, and there's always new things, you're constantly changing, your expertise is constantly evolving. You can't say it all in one piece that there's a lot of things to say to stay relevant and to stay current and to stay in people's mind as the go-to person for whatever it is that you're you're doing. You know, you can't just be like, oh, I had a lot of I had a lot of interest after I was in the Daily Mail once, and then never appear in in public again, you know, it's like and just expect that to be enough. So I think as you were saying though, I think people are sold this idea of a of a magical article the truth isn't as sexy, is it? Yeah, and people, it's the pay-to-play model, they only care about getting somebody to part with their money for that one piece. They're not trying to build, in the most part, an ongoing relationship. They're just saying this piece is going to change your life and throwing a lot of big claims about what it will do. And the reality is, you know, it's a process, it's something where each piece should show a little bit more about what you do, what you know, who you are, continues to build a picture of you that is trustworthy. Because if people see it in lots of different places, they think, oh, okay, it's not just this one place saying that this person's great. In the same way as one five-star Google review wouldn't convince people that you were amazing, because that could be your mum that's put that one five-star review. But if you had hundreds of five-star reviews, people are like, Oh, okay, there's a lot of people. So lots and lots of different pieces will always outweigh this one single piece.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Completely, completely, and it's not all about the big, flashy top-tier ones either. Like, it's those for like the big credibility pieces, and then those for volume, like it's the consistency of continuously showing up, your name popping up alongside your topic. What that does as well is it has AI recognizing who you are and recognizing and recommending you to people because you know, AI isn't gonna look at one piece um from a few years ago and or even even from a pay-to-play outlet, you know, it knows which funds are like it it's kind of like it grades them based on how credible they actually are, and it's looking constantly at third-party validation, like genuine. So if you want to be recommended by AI, then this is the way to go.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah. And that's not to say, so don't think, oh, but I've done a pay-to-play. Oh, I must have AR pay-to-play is fine if you think of it as like an advert. Yeah. But don't confuse it with your PR strategy, and don't take it with a huge pinch of salt when people call it PR because it isn't. It's it's an advert that looks like an article. That's that's the reality of what it is. That's why you can choose what it says, that's why you can check it all over, and that's why, even if you put the most crazy nonsense, that person's not gonna challenge you. They're gonna say, Oh, great, because you've handed over the money. Where non-paid-for media, so earned media, has is it's gone through a quality control process to make sure it is relevant to the outlet's audience. If you come out with a load of nonsense, they're gonna say, Oh, that's not right for our audience. So that means that the audience trusts it more. They know, okay, this is where I go, this is the magazine I read for this, or this is the website I go to find out more about this. So they are opting in with an understanding of what they're gonna find at that publication, or if you listen to a podcast, you've got an idea of okay, I've listened to other ones, this is what it's gonna be about. So you automatically have them coming in wanting to know more about what you've got to say. So once you're in there, you've got you've got much more attention on you because people are choosing to go to that outlet for what they're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah, that's the key thing, that's the key thing, isn't it? Like a earned media outlet will like they are thinking about their audience. The pieces are designed to appeal to the audience, where with pay to play, it's designed to appeal to the buyer, which is the person being featured. That's why it feels good to them. Yeah, it doesn't actually do much, but it feels great to them. They love it and they'll probably get lots of congratulations, engagements, and stuff like that, which makes them reinforce it, they feel even better. The truth about earned media is that it can be very, very uncomfortable at times, you know. Like, and that's something that people need to expect and to know how to override as well. And it's not, you know, it's it's not for everybody, it's for a specific type of person. And I'm not I'm not anti-pay-to-play either. I will say that I'm anti-bullshit, like call it what it is.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

And this is the thing that when I first started working in the media, nobody talked about pay-to-play. There wasn't these big things where people would say, Oh, you know, you can do this. I think because social media, I mean, I'm showing my age here, but when I started, it was like around 2000. So, like, there wasn't these big social media platforms where people were selling things. But what there was pay to play that wasn't called that, it was called advertorial. And newspaper advertising departments would ring businesses up and they would say, Would you like to pay for an article to go alongside your advert that's going to say this? And it was described as an advertising feature or advertorial. So they knew exactly what they were getting, and lots of people still went for it and they they liked having it, and it was there, and there was value to it, but it was much more clearly labelled with what it was. And certainly you will still see sponsored features, advertising features in some of the particular UK press, I think legally have to label them. If it's say like in the Telegraph, the Times, The Guardian, you might occasionally see something that will say sponsored content, and that means money has paid that. But where it's got blurred is you've got these whole outlets now where everything in it has been paid for, and it's not obvious to people outside. So it's kind of blurred the lines between okay, what's an advert and what's an article, and it's led to some very understandable misconceptions about what PR is because they're thinking it's one thing and it's actually another. I think another thing that I'd really like, a kind of a myth that I'm desperate to bust, is what the role of a PR agency is in kind of like how they manage you. I feel like films and TV have given this idea that your PR team is going to be walking behind you going, oh, you're you're fabulous, darling, you're amazing and like really sycophantic. And I'm sure there probably are some PR people that are like that. But I would like to say that Loano and I will always tell you, we will tell you you're fabulous if you're being fabulous. But if there's things that need to be improved, or parts of your message that maybe are gonna fall flat with a certain audience, we'll tell you what you need to know because we don't believe that saying, Oh, that's amazing, when we know in our expertise that that's never gonna work. If you say something, I want to get booked into Forbes saying this, and we know there's no way Forbes are gonna like that, how would it help you to be like, oh, yes, you're amazing, you're a revolutionary.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah, we will not do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

You know, and that if you're used to people always telling you that you're the best in the world at everything, you know, maybe that will feel a little bit uncomfortable, but know that it always comes from a place of wanting the best completely for you. And I don't think the PR agencies that tell people what they want to hear, I think eventually, if that's not true, they're gonna see that in the results. If they're told you're amazing, you're amazing, you're amazing, but then the journalists aren't interested, then it's gonna eventually lead to that kind of disconnect. Whereas actually let's look at okay, so what needs to what needs to happen, what can we do, and where can we problem solve? Because one thing journalists are really quite good at seeing through the smokes and mirrors of branding. They know what's just kind of fancy talk and what's real expertise. What they're really looking for is somebody who knows what they're talking about, who's got something to offer their audience, whether that's amazing expertise and wisdom and tips, or it might be that you've got a really inspirational or amazing story that really is going to move people or interest people, or there's something that you've got to say that their audience wants to hear. That's what they're looking for. And they're not looking for a big bank balance, they're not looking for whether you've got a fancy car or not. I mean, you've had this. That's it directly links to the story, of course. If they're doing a kind of a how I became a millionaire by the time I'm 20, then yeah, they're gonna want to know these things, or if it's like a how I made my money. But I would say I must have spoken to thousands and thousands of people in my career, and I don't think I would have ever thought how much money have they got in the bank, or what's their house like if they knew what they were talking about. I might have thought, what's your credentials? What's your experience? Have you got a lived experience that's relevant to what we're talking about? Or have you got a book? Have you written a book about this? Those kind of things that build authority. I don't think I would have ever thought, oh, are you wealthy? Unless it was a money or a business success story. And it is a building story.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

It is a it is a common comment that I get from people, you know, when I talk to people who are interested in PR, and quite often I say, I don't, I don't think I'm earning enough money. And it's not like that they're saying, it's not that they're saying they don't have money to pay for PR, they think they're not wealthy enough to be featured. Or on the other end, it's like they think they don't have a big enough social following.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

And definitely, I will be honest, if you have millions of followers, that is definitely gonna help. That's definitely gonna be an advantage. Outlets are attracted to people with a big audience because they want a share of that audience to them, but it's not gonna rule you out because what they're wanting is someone who has got a compelling story. Lots of people aren't even on social media at all still.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

We have some clients who have come, you know, they've one of their reasons that they wanted PR is because they wanted to bypass the socials and they just they're not interested in it, they don't want to be on there, so they wanted to quickly reach a bigger audience. Now that's not what we recommend, like the biggest, most effective way that you can do it is to do the socials and to amplify that with PR. But we have got multiple clients who have used it as a way of bypassing the socials.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

And it's very much if you think of some of the people who are probably the most successful people that you can think of, and you think of a time before social media, nobody would have been like social media is a very new thing, so this idea that you can only know what you're talking about if you've got a huge following is a complete misconception because actually, people have been voices of authority for a lot longer than they have been social media. Some people put a lot of focus into their social media and that's great. Other people, maybe they spend their time writing books and they don't really care about social media, they haven't got a big following. What a journalist is really wanting to know is do is your voice right for this story? Have you got something interesting to say that I want to share with my audience? Are you going to be an interesting guest if it's a podcast podcast or a radio show or a TV thing? Have you got something to say that's different to what other people are saying? And also, do you even want to speak to the media? So this is like another common thing that I've come across is people will often look at they'll look at an outlet they really want to be in, and they'll see a piece and they'll go, Well, they featured that person, and that person hasn't even got as many Instagram followers as me, or they actually I trained them 10 years ago. I know more than they do. Yeah, yeah. And then my follow-up question will usually be, oh, so did you pitch that outlet? Did you go to them? And they'll be like, Oh no, no, I just there is a misconception that if you are well known enough or you're good enough within your field, so it might not even be that you're very well known, you're just very good at your expertise, that journalists will just flock to you, and if they've gone to somebody else, then that's like a big injustice. I can guarantee you that in most cases, not all, but most cases, they won't have gone randomly to that person. That person will have reached out proactively to them, and that's why they're being featured. So the biggest thing holding people back is actually journalists not knowing that they want to talk about this topic. If you think about it from the journalist point of view, it would be very time consuming if for every piece they were having to just go onto Google or ask AI, like who's the expert in this? And then they're gonna have to reach out, knowing that that person might never respond to them. They might actually be quite rude. Maybe they don't want to be in the media, maybe they're not interested in giving their time for this publication. Rather than, oh, okay, let's contact some PR agencies and see if that they're representing people, or let's put something out and see who volunteers to talk on this topic, or let's see who's already emailed me, and if there's anybody that has emailed me that will fit the bill, that's a lot easier for a journalist. So sometimes I remember one it really sticks in my mind because it was such a challenge. I uh was given something to do for Mother and Baby magazine over the Christmas period. So those of you outside the UK might work differently, but in the UK, probably pretty much from about the 22nd of December, everybody buggers off until pretty much after New Year. And I had a deadline that fell within this sort of empty period, and I had to find someone that was like an expert in some childhood health issue, and it was an absolute nightmare because all the PR agencies and they all had their out of office, like have a wonderful Christmas, and nobody was particularly emailing me and stuff. So those people who I knew were up for it were absolutely worth their weight in gold because I knew that they wouldn't be. If I'd have just randomly reached out to somebody in the bit in the kind of Christmas holiday period that I didn't even know wanted to be in the media, I would have been like, oh, they're gonna be really snappy with me, or they're gonna not like it. So knowing, even just making it known that you are an expert who is keen to talk on these topics will often be the difference. And it's not just sort of sitting back and waiting for people to knock on your door. That's it, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

I had somebody recently as well, you know, coming and saying it's not fair because I was watching this TV show and there was this expert on, and like they were talking about my topic, but I'm more knowledgeable. And it's like, yeah, but you didn't pitch. I get why people think that though. It's and again, it's because of the way that people kind of portray these things. Like an expert will post on the socials, I've just been contacted by whatever it is. But although that can happen, that's not the case if somebody's, you know, regularly in the press, they are doing something proactive. Either they've got a PR agency working for them or they are pitching. But a lot of people like to create this illusion that the they're so in demand that everybody's just coming direct to them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

And usually if journalists are coming direct to them, it's because they've already done a lot.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Because they've already done it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

I will sometimes recommend experts to other journalists who will then go to them. And it will seem like it's out of the blue, but it will actually be because they've done a lot of work with other apps and they built a good reputation for being somebody who knows the stuff and is easy to work with.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

What a great point. Because people these people will think that that's out of the blue, but actually, it's because of the conversations going on behind the scenes in the media world that they don't know anything about. Um people don't usually think about this stuff, do they? Like they think about their reputation on the front end, but not so much on the back end.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

And you know, there are people who are absolutely known as the leading expert. And once you reach that level, you probably do have a steady stream of people. If you are the the person on a topic, and you've but again, you probably have had to have a lot of media for everybody to know you are the experience.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Exactly. It doesn't just happen off the bat, like one off, yeah, it can happen off the bat, maybe two or three times. But to get to that point where the media are constantly coming to you, that means being in the media and being known in the media world already. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

And because the first thing as well, when they're looking, if they are thinking, oh, I need to contact someone, they'll often the first thing they'll look at is who have other outlets featured on this topic? Yeah. Who who else? Who have our competitors used in the past? And they'll have a little look. And if and then if they think actually, yeah, they've got some good stuff, then they're gonna be much more likely to reach out to you. If you've never ever been in the media, but you are an extremely credentialed expert, maybe you've got research papers and all that kind of stuff that you've done. Journalists aren't gonna necessarily know that you're gonna be accessible to them, that you're gonna either be interested, be able to break it down in simple terms, because that's not the world that they're working in. So while within your field, people might know that you really know your stuff. Remember that journalists are having to be experts in lots and lots and lots of different topics. So, unless they are extremely specialized in what they do, they're not gonna have the industry knowledge you do to know this is the person that you should talk into. This if they're not visible and out there and actually proving that in in in the public space.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Exactly. It's one thing, them knowing how good they are, their clients, their audience, but it's a whole nother thing for journalists and producers to know that. Okay, and on that note, we will end that for today. Any questions, comments, or if there are any topics that you want us to talk about, email us hello at dauntlesspr.com. See you next time.