One thing you need to do to help you get booked for your dream publications

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Transcript

Speaker 2 0:00

Okay, so today we're going to delve into something that you can do to really help you to get booked in the feet in the publications where you really want to be that's going to do the best for you and your brand.

Speaker 0:18

So it what we're about to say probably isn't going to be what you expect us to say because it's actually a really, really easy thing to do. It's probably something that is so easy, but actually lots and lots of people don't do it for all sorts of different reasons. So easy that people discard it completely at times. Yeah. And you know, and what we're going to say is literally just having a curiosity about what is going on about in the world around you, what people are talking about, what matters to people. And one of the most effective ways of doing that, of getting out of your own echo chamber, because let's be honest, we all exist in echo chambers. We all talk to people who think like us. We exist in social media, in in little groups of people, we don't necessarily hear what everybody else is talking about in those echo chambers, is simply to consume the media. If you want to be in the media, one of the best ways of making sure that you are ready and you know what everybody's talking about, and you're the best person to be in the media is to simply consume some yourself. And so, for example, listening to podcasts, reading newspapers, looking in magazines, looking on websites, watching some TV, listening to the radio, often people think of those things as maybe they think they're a waste of time, or they think, oh, I should be doing other things that are more relevant to what I'm doing. But actually knowing what everyone is talking about, what's happening in the world, what the current affairs are, will mean that you then know where your voice fits into that. So my thing that I like to say to people is if you don't know what other people are talking about, how can you join the conversation? If you exist in a world where you've absolutely no idea what's going on in the world, you've no idea what's trending, you've no idea what celebrities are doing, you've no idea what um changes are happening in the law or in the country that you live or in your industry. It's very difficult for you to become a relevant voice because you don't know what you need to be talking about.

Speaker 2 2:49

You know what though, Catherine, I really get it because you might remember this. Like I used to be like that a few years ago now, because I didn't want to be drawn into like negativity in the news, and it's a big thing, you know, in the coaching world where people are shouting, don't waste your time doing like consuming the news, don't get drawn in, don't let it suck you down, and that kind of thing. So I do get it, but what I found is that there's there's a knack to it. So, and that is to look at what's going on, but without getting emotionally involved, and it takes practice, it's not something that that comes from day one, you know. On day one, maybe you will like have a look through the news cycle and go, oh my god, what's happening here, and get really drawn into things, but it's knowing what's relevant to you and your industry, yeah, and knowing when you've got something important to add to that conversation as well.

Speaker 4:01

Yeah. And you know, I'm obviously from completely the opposite end of the spectrum to you, Luana, in that I've always been a news junkie, and I accept that that isn't what I'm suggesting that everybody becomes. You know, I have known I've wanted to be a journalist since I was a child, so I grew up devouring the news, wanting to know, you know, what everything that was going on, and that isn't what I'm saying everybody should do, because that's not necessarily the right and the most productive thing for the vast majority of people. But what I do think is a really good thing is just to know, particularly in your niche, in your industry, what's going on, what are other people saying, what are new developments, what are then are there some new relevant studies that have come out that you could add your voice to? You don't have to know everything about everything about everything. I'm not suggesting that you, you know, you spend ages reading about the most grisly murders around the world, if actually what you want to be talking to people about is health and fitness, but knowing what the trends are in health and fitness would be really, really useful. So it's it's working out what things matter to you and not wearing it as a badge of honour to not look at the media. So this is something I've noticed lots over the last few years, and probably more so now than than ever before. Lots of people will say, Oh, I don't, I don't look at the media, I don't, and that will be something that they are very proud of. And it's not something that they, and I'm not suggesting they should be apologetic about, but it's not like they're saying, Oh, sorry, no, I don't, I don't look at that. They actually, that's something they aspire to. I'm not going to look. And if you want to be in the media and you want to be someone who is featured in amazing media outlets, you are actually putting yourself at a little bit of a disadvantage if you don't watch things, read things, listen to things. So one example is not just knowing what's going on, but knowing the right places for you. Um, knowing what so we often, when we start working with people, we usually will ask them very early on, what are your dream outlets? Where do you really want to appear? Like, what are we aiming for here? And people who have got a good awareness of the media landscape will have a really good idea and they'll be like, Yep, I want to be here, here, and here. And it gives us something really productive to work towards. And people who are doing their own PR, if they know what's out there, they know what they want to where they want to appear, they know the kinds of things that they should be talking about or what stories would appeal to the journalist writing for those outlets, they have a much more in-depth understanding. If you never read a magazine, it can be hard to know what kind of thing a magazine would want to talk to about. If you never listen to a podcast, it can be very hard to know how to have a great conversation on a podcast. So, you as part of your kind of upskilling to become the kind of person who is going to be a go-to expert in the media, knowing what's out there and what kind of audiences they have and what kind of topics they talk about, it gives you a real advantage over the people that aren't doing anything.

Speaker 2 8:08

It really does. Because have you noticed as well that people will jump to say the same titles? And often it's not even where their audience is, it's just because they've heard that other people want to be in it, and so it's like that they don't, they're not thinking deeply about what's best for them. They're thinking, oh, that person wants to be in it, so it must be great for me, or that person's been in it, but actually, it's not not even their audience, like Forbes is a really good example of that. Like, most people want to be in Forbes, don't they? And Forbes is great, like, of course, but um not the best fit for everybody, yeah.

Speaker 8:54

So I feel like I often feel quite controversial saying this, and it shouldn't be controversial to say that Forbes shouldn't be everybody's goal. It can be if you are an entrepreneur and what you talk about is business and leadership and things like that, Forbes is a great fit. If what you talk about is much more of a lifestyle thing, um, maybe relationships, love, dating, sex, those kind of things, Forbes isn't your top place. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be great to be in it, but it isn't your thing to aim for, it's not your your sort of top goal place. But I was really shocked. So when I first started working with Dauntless in 2020, like Forbes was very much not on my radar as an amazing publication because there aren't, you know, I'll I'm gonna say it in a stage whisper, even though I'm thinking, but like most journalists have got no interest in writing for Forbes. It's mostly contributors, it's got a very small writing team. It's not that big a deal in the media industry, it's a very big deal to the people who love it and who whose audience love it. But I was really surprised that people weren't saying, I really want to be in the Sunday Times or the Telegraph or the New York Times or the Washington Post or the things that I would have seen as the being as being the top prize publications. That's not to mean that my opinion is any more valuable than anybody else's, but it took me by surprise because I wasn't in that world where it was valued as highly until I started to see other people. And it is a great publication for lots of people, but it is also probably the most common one that I hear repeated by people who actually have never looked at the website themselves.

Speaker 2 11:00

Oh, yes, sometimes I'll I'll say, like I'll ask them what they've read in it recently, and they'll say they've never looked at it.

Speaker 11:08

Yeah. And it's that thing, isn't it? That you you want to know what it is that you want you're going to appear in. And I think another reason I I'd love people to look at the media a bit more, and you know, I get it, I do get it. It's it can feel overwhelming at times, it can feel a very negative space, particularly when we are and we have been for some years in what I would call interesting times. There's a lot going on in the world, lots of it can feel can feel very noisy, very overwhelming, very like, oh, you don't even know which cause you're supposed to be caring about the most. It can feel uh very, very much like that. Um, so I'm not, and this is what I mean by I'm not suggesting that you make that your whole your whole life, do dip in and out, but just knowing more about what exists, what's there, will make you it can give you really good ideas of the things you should be talking about, it can give you great ideas for your socials. It's it has a lot of advantages that people are perhaps missing because they're trying to avoid the negativity. What I would say is do block time out. So give yourself a few minutes a day where you just have a look at the headlines and then step away. Don't make it your whole thing. And if you have a day where you're feeling really vulnerable, you're having a day where you really aren't in a space where you want to see any negativity, then yeah, you don't have to, you can say to yourself, I'm not going to today, or I'm only going to look in certain spaces today that I think will, you know, maybe have Google alerts or something similar for keywords that are relevant to your niche so that you're getting it filtered in some way. Um, because I have days, even though I am a self-confessed news junkie, I have days where I think it's all a bit much, like there's a lot going on. And there is a reason why, you know, the news is very negative sometimes, and it's because that is actually sadly what most people click on. So it's a self-fulfilling process.

Speaker 2 13:34

We're drawn to it as humans, and let's talk about that some more because a lot of people out of principle will say, Well, I'm not going to watch the news, I'm not going to do this because it's all negative and fear-based. And some of them will say that they don't want to be in the media because it's all negative and fear-based. But then my question to that would be, what would you like to be replace it with? And usually they'll say something like, you know, they'll give me some positive inspirational story, and I'll say, Well, wouldn't it make sense if you took one of those spots that could have been used for something um fear-based and negative and filled it with what you want, that's what's going to work, not boycotting. They don't care about boycotting. There's plenty of people who are still going to click.

Speaker 14:30

And the thing is, if you think about the the journalists who have got whether they are a TV journalist and they have um time to fill a particular space in a program to fill, whether they are a newspaper journalist or they're doing it on a digital website, they have they have to produce a certain amount of content, whatever type of content that is, to fill the gaps that they have. If you're not going to them with your story, they can't tell it. So if they're only getting the negative stuff, there's stuff that they have to report. You know, murders, they have to report that major changes in law or government, they have to report that. There are things that they have to report, often which skew to the negative, because they are telling, they are serving their purpose to inform the public of what's going on around them. And they have to let us know about this negative stuff so that we're aware that we know what's happening in the world around us, we can make decisions at elections, we can know what things are going to affect us in our day day-to-day lives, but also they do want they want the other stuff as well. But people often don't go to them with that stuff because if you're opting out, you're not sharing your inspirational stories, your you're not doing anything over a complaining messages, and you're leaving a vacuum where only the negative stuff exists if you're opting out. Right, it makes no sense, does it? You know, when I worked um in newspapers and I was involved in helping decide, you know, what went on which pages of the newspaper, and it wasn't we we never ever sat down at a meeting at um a news conference and said, Oh, let's just fill this with the most negative stuff that we can find. That was never what we said. We actually made a really conscious effort of what we would call light and shade. So if you had a really negative story in one place, we would try and have something a little bit more light-hearted, something a little bit more entertaining. What you tend to do as humans is you filter that out so you remember the negatives in the same way as if you got a hundred positive reviews and one negative, it will be the negative that you stick with. So actually, you probably didn't spot the lovely positive stories, the kind of proactive things, the things you could be doing to improve your life type content, because you saw the negative stuff. So I think often people who say they don't want to be in the media because it's so negative, they don't necessarily have an accurate view of what the media is like because they've opted out, they're not looking at what's out there, so they're actually believing it's more negative and more inaccurate and more untrustworthy than it really is, but also they're not allowing their voice to be heard in that, they are leaving it for the negativity, exactly. And I do think as well, it's there is an element, and I think we need to be acknowledge this that a lot of the reason that people say that they don't want to consume the media is that they don't trust it, that there's an a distrust. So it's a really good thing for us to talk about that because that will often be what holds people back from PR. This idea of, but if I talk to a journalist, will they twist my words?

Speaker 2 18:21

There's this idea that journalists are all sitting in a dark room, like plotting everybody's demise. Like there seems to be this image of journalists that conjure up that, but it's not like that at all, is it, Catherine? Like people tend to think that the media is just one thing, the media is one thing, everybody working together to put out a certain message and to fool people and to twist people's words.

Speaker 18:57

Yeah. I remember thinking, um, so when I've seen these negative comments, I mean I've worked in the media for more than 24 years, and I remember thinking, when were I never told what this agenda was, I was never told what we were supposed to be saying. Like nobody ever contacted me to say what our evil plot was. Like I've just been putting like putting stories together and covering covering the news. Like, did I miss the memo? Like, was I left out of the conspiracy? I've always kind of had that thing because it's the reality of what it's like working in the media is so different from people's idea of it. You know, are there some outlets that are less trustworthy than others? Absolutely. And again, knowing what's out there and making your own decisions from actually reading them and listening to them and watching them means you can make an informed decision and not just take what other people are saying. I mean, one common example, people often complain about the sun. Um, and I've written for the sun. Um, I have friends that work for the sun as staff members. It's, you know, it does its job extremely well, but it has a very negative um reputation among certain people. There may well be things that they've done that are deserving of that. I know that there are people that have got valid criticisms, but also they do put out a lot of stories that inform people, that entertain people, that that does its role as a newspaper. But all I'm asking, I'm not saying to people you should be in the sun, is have a look at these things yourself and make your own mind up, make your own mind up of whether that's somewhere that you want to be. And when it comes to trust, um one thing point I really would like to make, um, without getting on my soapbox too much, is people often talk about the lack of trust in the media, but they will absolutely gobble up stuff on social media, which has a lot less regulation or no regulation. People can literally go on TikTok and say anything at all, absolute nonsense, and people will share it. The media particular, I can only really speak with absolute confidence about the law that governs the media in the UK. I'm sure there is lots of legislation around media in other countries, but not that I know, sort of like the back of my hand. But there are so many laws that you have to abide by when you work for a media outlet in the UK. You cannot defame somebody. So you cannot, you cannot publish things that are knowingly and maliciously unjust. True. You cannot, if there is an active court proceedings, you cannot, there's lots of things that you cannot say that could jeopardize those court proceedings. So what tends to happen is say something happens in the news and people will be sharing information on social media that isn't being shared in the mainstream media. And people will say, ah, they're trying to hide this from us because they're not sharing it. But the reality is they can't legally share that information because they have to abide by laws that someone with a thousand followers on TikTok isn't going to worry about being sued. They're not big enough for someone to pay attention. So there is a gulf between what people believe is the disinformation, which they believe is the mainstream media, and they believe the trustworthy thing is a social media. But actually, in general, it's the other way around. So that's not to say that there's not amazingly trustworthy content on social media and that there's dodgy things that happen in mainstream media, you know, it's not black and white, but as a general rule, if it's said in a UK publication, it will have been vetted, it will have been legaled. I used to have to speak to lawyers on an almost daily basis to run things past them. What can we legally say in this situation? What is allowed to be said? And some of the information had to come out because it wasn't, we weren't able to say it. So there is lots and lots of checks and balances in place in the media. But again, you only really know that if you jump in and you actually get involved and you appear in, and most people actually come off their first big interview with a journalist and they say, Oh, it was, but it was just like chatting to like a friend. Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:04

But that that you they make you feel so so comfortable, like they are so friendly and so good at what they do generally. I think like a good thing to talk about would be when people feel that they have been misrepresented. Because I know that I've had features going out, and that I've said to you, Catherine, I didn't say that thing. And then when I think about it afterwards, like when the emotion has come down, then I've thought about it and I've thought, okay, maybe I did say that, but I didn't mean it in that context. Yeah. And I think that this is something that we see with clients as well, isn't it? You know, they'll they'll say one thing and they'll say they they didn't say it, but then we've got it there in written, but it's it is that that feeling like that's not how I meant it. Like it feels it feels a bit like a smack in the face all on its own in a headline. Like that's not how I meant it.

Speaker 25:16

Yeah, and it is a it's a confronting experience to see your story told in somebody else's words, really is. So you know, and this particularly happens with personal stories, more so than you know, if you were giving expert advice. Oh, expert stories are way safer, are they? If you're telling a story that you might be talking about, you know, a really difficult period in your life that you've overcome in some way, or something really personal. There are so many elements to what you actually went through in your life that you can't sum that up in a few words or a short sound bite. So, whatever version comes out is never gonna feel completely as it really was when it happened to you because you lived it, you know every element of that story and all the different thoughts and feelings. A journalist can just take the information you give them and present it in the most interesting way for their audience, and that's their goal is how can they serve their audience? So they're thinking what's the most interesting way of telling this story, what's gonna make people click on it if it's an online piece, what's gonna make them click on it and read it, what's gonna make them engage with it, maybe leave comments or share it with their friends, you know. So that's their goal. So, what you need to do is be mindful of that in an interview. If there's an element of your story that you're not comfortable with people knowing, do not tell it. Don't assume that they're going to put all the caveats in place. You know, if you say to them, um, oh, I did this thing, and you think, you know, and the thing that you did sounds really harsh when said out loud, and then you've got a load of, but it was okay because of this, this, this, this, this, this, and this. They very well not go into all that because they won't have the space to do so. They're not doing it to be mean, leaving all that out, they're just going with the bare bones important part of your story. Often people can feel a little bit like, oh, but I needed them to say, explain it a little bit further. Yeah. So when you're going into an interview, a way of sort of combating that is get it straight in your head how you're gonna tell your story in a way that you're happy for it to appear in the world. Not scripted, I don't mean you have to sort of sit and write a big sort of dialogue, but if you get clear in your own mind how you're gonna share what might be quite a difficult story, work out the bits that you actually think, no, I'm gonna leave that out because I don't think that's fair on other people in my life, or it's not gonna portray me in the way that I want to be portrayed. Doesn't mean you have to be dishonest, but everybody you shine a light on different parts of any story when you're telling it, and just get clear in that. So it usually isn't, and I say usually because there's always bad apples in any industry, there will be journalists who will have made stuff up like there's no point me pretending that it's never happened, but well, Catherine, there's an arsehole in every industry, exactly.

Speaker 2 28:52

Exactly.

Speaker 28:52

So if we discount the few bad apples that I'm sure that there are, most of the time when people have rung up and complained about something maybe that I've done, I've had in my notes that they said that exact thing, that there wasn't actually any inaccuracy. What they actually mean when they complain, and I didn't have many complaints really for the amount of time I was doing it, but you know, everybody gets some. What they actually meant is I didn't really like how my own words looked when I saw them written down. Like it's one thing to say something in a conversation and you get carried away, and we all say things without thinking sometimes. Yeah, but sometimes when we then see what we said presented back to us, I mean, sometimes people will have a problem with what they said on a podcast or the radio, and it's actually they can hear it in their own voice, but they won't have liked it because they'll suddenly think afterwards, oh no, well, what that came across a bit harsh.

Speaker 2 29:57

I didn't mean it like that yet.

Speaker 29:59

Yeah, and they'll think, oh, actually, now I hear it back, that sounds a lot harsher than I meant it in my head. So getting clarity about your own stories and messages beforehand, so that you're not worrying about what you're saying. And that's something that we help people with at Dauntless that we work with, we do mock interviews with them so that they are thrown into situations where they talk and we can say to them afterwards if we think they've said something that maybe wasn't a great look for them, and maybe wasn't the best thing to say for their audience, we can help them catch that because people will get carried away. It does feel like a conversation with a friend, and sometimes people might share things that maybe they shouldn't have shared, um, or perhaps with hindsight they wouldn't have shared if they'd realized that that would become the focus of the piece because you in most situations you won't get copy approval over a piece. You may some journalists may, as a courtesy, send you an article and ask you to check it over, but always go into an interview assuming that that isn't the case. It's far better to assume that you're not gonna have sight of it, you're not gonna have control of it, and be really happy with how you came across in the interview so that there is no way that they could have confused what you said than to feel like you need to go back and check it and change it and think you know, totally like at the risk, at the risk of sounding harsh, once you've done your interview, it's no longer any of your business.

Speaker 2 31:51

What the journalist then says about you is up to them, and you just need to release control of it. And if there are little details missing, you know, it or something's got mixed up. For example, they might have said you've lived where you are for four years and not five, like it doesn't, those kind of things doesn't matter, like just let them go, focus on the message, and you know, going back to the original thing about you know why consuming lots of media is great, is it gives you a feel for the kind of style of how they tell people stories.

Speaker 32:32

So if you um know you've got an interview with a certain publication and you have a little look at the kinds of articles they do, you will have a feel for the types of things they might pick up on in what you're saying. So you're going into it with more of an informed perspective. So some women's magazines are massively popular, really good at telling real life stories, but the headlines, I know you will have you have experience at this. Spicy to say the least. They are very, very, very in-your-face headlines that but they are extremely well read, they're very good at it.

Speaker 2 33:21

That's why they bring in the millions, isn't it? They know how to bring in the audience. So as much as a headline can make us cringe because they're so bold, that's also what brings the people in. So it's one of those things that we have to accept completely.

Speaker 33:39

But if you've read a couple, and I'm not suggesting subscribe for years before you do an interview, but if you've at least had a look at a copy before you speak to that journalist, you will probably know if there's pitfalls you need to avoid, if you think, oh, actually, I think if I say this, that will probably be the headline. You know, you can kind of give yourself a little bit of fair warning just by knowing it's like it's like looking up. If you were going to go on a weekend away to a place, looking at a media publication before an interview is like having a little look about what's in this place, where can I go to eat? That's it, what are the attractions? You're going into it with an informed perspective. If you go into it completely blind, with no idea of who the readership is, what their style of writing is, what kind of um, even whether it could be a double-page spread or whether it's likely to be um something else, you know, you're going into it blind, so you don't really know what the outcome's gonna be. If you have a look at the media beforehand, you can decide for yourself, you can make an informed decision. Is this the kind of place I want to be? Is this something that's gonna reach the people I want to reach? Is this gonna be um is this gonna be an amazing opportunity? Is this gonna be something that could be an amazing opportunity, but I might need to tread a little bit carefully? You can just make those informed decisions that make you then get the best out of your your media strategy and your PR instead of what a lot of people do, which is I want to be everywhere, but I don't want to look at any of it myself. That's it everywhere.

Speaker 2 35:31

It's such an important point, and that's a great one to finish with. So main things for today then. Let's do a quick recap. Consume the media that you want to be in, gain an understanding of what they what kind of things they publish, what kind of what their styles like, what's going on in the world and in your industry that you can be a part of the conversation of.

Speaker 35:59

Yeah, absolutely. Just be curious. Curiosity is a really great thing for for everything, really. Be curious about what's out there, what people are talking about, and how you can you can make your voice heard within it. Love it.

Speaker 2 36:17

We will see you next time.

Speaker 1 36:19

And that's it for today's dose of unfiltered PR truths. To find out more about how you can work with Dauntless PR, drop me a message on Facebook, Luana Ribeira, or email hello at dauntlesspl.com